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HTML Basic - Validation

I know this is a really basic question...

Are these the same f开发者_开发技巧or close -

 <iframe src="includes/captcha/captcha.php"></iframe>
 <iframe src="includes/captcha/captcha.php"/>

And

 <div id="container_join_messages" class="shadow"></div>
 <div id="container_join_messages" class="shadow"/>

Just wanting to see if I can drop the extra tag at the end and still validate.

Using this doc type

 <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">


According to What are all the valid self-closing elements in XHTML (as implemented by the major browsers)? XHTML capable browsers support self-closing on every element. I've never tried validating such a document myself though.

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