How long does it take an experienced programmer to become proficient with a new technology / language? [closed]
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Improve this questionI realize that the question is likely o get a lot of "it depends", but I am curious anyway. When you hire开发者_Python百科 somebody new (but experienced) to the team, and they don't have expertise in technology you are using, but know something similar, how much time do you budget for them to "get online."
I am talking about something fairly substantial, like a language, or a framework / product that has a lot of ways of doing things. Obviously, many libraries takes very little time to start using.
In my own experience (10 years of experience, including a fair amount of consulting, so learning new technologies is par for the course), it takes me about three to six months of experience to become proficient at a new technology, and about a year to feel like I am approaching expert level where I know all the basics and medium-difficulty issues, along with a few areas very well.
What do you do in your projects? How do you budget the time to account for learning.
It doesn't only depend on the individual involved -- it crucially depends on the specific technology as well as the individual's background; certain technologies, esp. languages, are just harder and slower to get into. I've seen world-class Java gurus with zero previous exposure to C++ take many months, say on the order of six or so, to be fully productive in C++; vice versa (world-class C++ guru with zero previous exposure to Java) I've seen take about 2-3 months; again for extremely experienced and skilled programmers with no previous exposure to dynamic languages, being fully productive in Python can be expected to take 3-4 weeks. In each case I'm talking about 100% full-time involvement in the relevant technology, by a programmer in the world's top one percent in terms of skill and experience, within a team having several other programmers of that caliber who also gurus in the specific language in use.
Factors that can shorten the time are previous exposure to "similar" languages/technologies, e.g. a solid background in C makes C++ slightly faster to learn, solid background in C# helps with Java, solid background in Ruby or Perl helps with Python. Factors that can lengthen the time include lack of suitably experienced teammates, not being 100%-immersed in the "new thing", and psychological resistance (not really wanting to do it with all one's heart!-).
I've focused on programming languages for my examples, but some technologies can be even harder, i.e., take longer to master -- if you've never written embedded real-hard-time programs (no dynamic allocation of memory allowed, proofs of upper bound on response time required of all function) even six months might not suffice; some application areas require mastery of application domains that, all on their own, can take even longer (if to understand at all what's going on, and therefore be fully productive, you need the equivalent of a BSc in Psychology, or deep knowledge of the Law, or a CPA's qualifications, etc, well, each of those takes years on its own!).
I don't think the language as such is the issue, rather the programming paradigm it encompasses.
e.g. earlier this year I tried C#, coming from a Java perspective. That was all very straightforward. However, I'm now trying Scala. Because of the functional aspect, I expect to be learning and honing my skills for a lot longer (you can write Scala in an imperative fashion, but you don't leverage its strengths doing that).
I suspect the same would apply when (say) migrating from a relational database to an OO database, vs. a MS-SQL/Oracle migration.
It does depend, mainly on how closely the language resembles a language they already know, as well as individual abilities at picking up new things. Moving between similar languages like C++, Java, and C# is very easy. Similarly, moving from (say) Win32 to MFC to .net is going to be easier than from MFC to MacOS.
Moving from C to C++ is likely to take longer, as the programmer has to learn OO methodologies. Moving from C++ to Perl or ML could take a lot longer!
However, you usually don't need to know much to get started. Moving from C++ to C# can be done in a few hours reading (on the main differences) and then you can start writing (or modifying existing) code. That's because (a) you already know how to do OO programming, and (b) 95% of the syntax is identical.
But the main thing it depends on is your definition of "proficient". With similar languages, you will be able to write good code within a few days (an algorithm is usually failry language independent), but it usually takes months or years to become truly "proficient" in a language or large library.
So I'd say as a rule of thumb, "up to (a reasonable) speed" in a few weeks, but you might see silly "mistakes" or inefficiencies in their code for months/years until they learn all the little tricks of the language.
In the case of people learning OO, usually it seems to take a few days to get the basic concepts, and then at about the 2 year mark, a moment of epiphany occurs where the programmer suddenly relises that they truly "get" it. (I guess this is when your brain starts thinking fluently in OO rather than trying to think procedurally and then translate that into an OO aproach)
In our environment (US health care revenue cycle) it is more than just learning and becoming proficient in the language or technology stack we use to deliver our solutions to our customers. The developer also has to understand the problem domain. We work with entities that often don't document the behaviors of their systems well-enough for external entities (us) to communicate with to get the data that our customers we want. Our developers are forced to think beyond the specs to build a functioning system.
There is also the inevitable "It doesn't work; fix it" problem report from the customer support staff. Frequently the problem isn't a defect in our software; it is an issue with other entities with which our software communicates. Our developers have to be able to identify (and sometimes prove) that it isn't our software so that our business analyst-types can go to that other entity and explain the issue in a way that will get them to resolve the problem.
You were expecting this answer but it all depends on the person/programmer. I have been in a situation where two equally skilled programmers had to pick up something new, one got it right away, while the other one took some time. Previous exposures to other technologies are also a factor.
Personally, in regard to something new, I budget my time to learning everything about it every chance I get. It would take about 6 months to fully be comfortable.
Hope this helps.
I am talking about something fairly substantial, like a language, or a framework / product that has a lot of ways of doing things. Obviously, many libraries takes very little time to start using.
When you hire somebody new (but experienced) to the team, and they don't have expertise in technology you are using, but know something similar, how much time do you budget for them to "get online."
Twenty-three work days, six hours, forty-three minutes, and seventeen point nine seconds.
What do you do in your projects? How do you budget the time to account for learning.
I think these questions are better!
Try to find an easy project in the new technology, and have them do that. If possible, have the person start by fixing bugs, then adding small features.
Learning is incremental. One can continue learning details of, say, C++ syntax throughout one's life. When one is an "expert" in a topic, it just means that the gains from learning more in that topic are growing smaller.
+1 for it depends.
It depends on such things as
- the attitude and capabilities of the person learning it
- is the problem area programming/paradigm well understood by that person
- the similarity of the new technology / language to other technologies he/she does know
- the consistency of the new technology / language in its interface (API, grammar, etc...)
- what is proficient (knowing just the language, or als the basic library, or also runtime behaviour (interactions with underlying technology))
Having said that, in my experience a smart person learning a new language/technology will quickly be more productive than other people with more experience in that language/technology.
See Peter Norvig's Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years for the related question of how long does it take to become proficient in programming.
It so completely depends on whether you already know languages that are similar to the new one, and know something about the problem domain the new language is suited for. I'd say don't expect to be reasonably proficient in less than 3-6 months, but again, it depends.
To take one example I implemented a PHP/MySQL web application a couple years ago (total effort was about 6 months). It was my first reasonably large web application, and my first PHP ever. I've used relational databases, but this was also my first exposure to MySQL. MySQL came very quickly, as expected, since it's really only a dialect of a language I knew well. What surprised me was that PHP also came quickly. I realized that not only did it borrow ideas from PERL and C/C++, but the whole paradigm of coding with integrated SQL statements strongly drew on some experience I had in the 90's with, of all things, Informix 4GL.
At the other end of the spectrum, I've never really learned a functional language, so I'm trying to pick up Scala. This is going to take substantially longer, and there'll be a long period where my Scala will feel like Java in disguise, and not be that functional.
So ... it depends! ;-)
I agree that it depends.
You also run the risk that if the person knows one technology/paradigm, they will code in the new language/technology using the old practices/paradigms.
For example, I picked up Python really fast (I'm a Java/C++ guy), but it took a long time since I stopped writing Java style code in Python and started thinking functionally.
To get really good, I think there's no replacement for experience. For instance, I'm sure I can easily pick up J2EE, but the experience to built up the best enterprise systems is not something you can pick up that fast.
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